[Monster550]

If it's not leaking I'd say it worked! As long as it's the oil resistant stuff I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's all liquid gasket..

It worked at first then failed after sitting over night. Yeah, it's gas, diesel, anti-freeze, and oil resistant. I put a thin layer under the gasket and a thick layer over. When I feel like tearing it back down I'll check the current squish first and subtract the base gasket height from that. I'm guessing it'll end up less than .15 and I'm not paying the $10-$11 a gallon for 110 octane, plus it's hard to get here. Depending on the guesstimated squish with no base gasket I'll either order a thicker head gasket or just add octane to 91 and charge my wife and friends to ride it. If I get it running of course.

 

[Terse]

So long as that gasket sealer is a semi flexible when dry and resists what it says it should work. (Not that it worked the first time you used it). Not all gasket sealers are semi flexible when dry. Some are flexible and some are hard when dry.

It worked at first then failed after sitting over night. Yeah, it's gas, diesel, anti-freeze, and oil resistant. I put a thin layer under the gasket and a thick layer over. When I feel like tearing it back down I'll check the current squish first and subtract the base gasket height from that. I'm guessing it'll end up less than .15 and I'm not paying the $10-$11 a gallon for 110 octane, plus it's hard to get here. Depending on the guesstimated squish with no base gasket I'll either order a thicker head gasket or just add octane to 91 and charge my wife and friends to ride it. If I get it running of course.

Ok, now your just going backwards in your build.....

The last thing you should do is run a thicker head gasket.

Good luck on your build.

 

[Monster550]

A thicker head gasket won't help keep the squish reasonable if I don't run a base gasket? I want to run as close to 91 octane as I can.
The sealant says it's a non setting sealer.
When I tore it apart earlier the base gasket was toast. It just ripped from being so wet around the dowel. Before I pulled the cylinder I torqued down my old head and it still leaked so I'm guessing the leak's not from the new head. I cleaned off the case and the bottom of the cylinder and applied the sealant to both surfaces fairly thick and let it set for a couple of minutes, then torqued the head down. I put it away to sit over night before testing it. Also today I left the lower radiator hose on and the water level never dropped below the dowel on the case. I'm as certain as I can be that the leak is between the case and cylinder. If it still leaks I'll try the Yamabond #4 with a new base gasket.

 

[climb-101]

I don't see how the o-ring/gasket position would matter. The gasket ends up around the o-ring either way.
Why is Yamabond #4 the only way to go? The Permatex I got specifically says it fills in for warped surfaces and it's recommended for head and water pump gaskets. It's also resistant to chemicals. I haven't compared products, but the description on the Permatex package seemed to be the best they had at the auto store for what I needed.

the prob with the o-ring on top of the gasket is that it will not allow the cylinder to sit flat to the gasket surface because it is in the way. If you look under the gasket on the case surface, there is the hole for the dowel pin and an extra recessed surface to allow for the o-ring to sit and be compressed a little to seal the dowel pin. If you are assembling with the o-ring on top of the gasket then that is prob the cause of the leak.

as far as the Permatex goes, it sets up to a more ridgid/solid mass when its dried. the Yamabond is more like a rubber allowing things to move and flex a little. The permatex tend to rip and tear when it moves.

 

[Monster550]

the prob with the o-ring on top of the gasket is that it will not allow the cylinder to sit flat to the gasket surface because it is in the way. If you look under the gasket on the case surface, there is the hole for the dowel pin and an extra recessed surface to allow for the o-ring to sit and be compressed a little to seal the dowel pin. If you are assembling with the o-ring on top of the gasket then that is prob the cause of the leak.

as far as the Permatex goes, it sets up to a more ridgid/solid mass when its dried. the Yamabond is more like a rubber allowing things to move and flex a little. The permatex tend to rip and tear when it moves.

The base gasket that came with the Athena kit sits around the o-ring so the o-ring can't sit under or over the gasket, but rather level with it in the recessed area. The Permatex PermaShield doesn't set, it almost feels like a melted crayon or melted wax just before it dries. The leak still consists without the base gasket and a ton of the Permatex though so I'll try it on the head gasket and see what happens. If it stops with that I'll order a new base and head gasket and use Yamabond #4 on both gaskets. Otherwise I'm completely lost. What gets me is how fast the leak is. It's not just a slow trickle, it leaks out of the case almost as fast as I poor it in the radiator. I doubt I'll find anything to solve this, but I'm going to pull the stator cover and fill the radiator to see if I can find anything.

Besides from the water pump and water jacket dowel on the case, where can coolant get in the oil system?

 

[Monster550]

The good news is I found the actual leak, the bad news is it's still not fixed. Either the new cylinder or the used head is warped around the timing chain slot. With the head cover off I can see water spitting out onto the chain. I'll go ahead and order new gaskets and get some Yamabond #4.

 

[Terse]

The good news is I found the actual leak, the bad news is it's still not fixed. Either the new cylinder or the used head is warped around the timing chain slot. With the head cover off I can see water spitting out onto the chain. I'll go ahead and order new gaskets and get some Yamabond #4.

Can you get a picture with an arrow pointing to where your talking about?

 

[Monster550]

Can you get a picture with an arrow pointing to where your talking about?

Actually no I can't bro, my wife's camera has a lens error so we can only view the pictures that are already there. Maybe I can explain it a little better though...

...If I'm looking down on the head (with no valve cover, left [exhaust side] chain guide, cams or cam caps) from the stator side into the timing chain area I can see a stream of water with constant flow (when I fill the radiator) coming from between the cylinder and head. It ends up dropping down onto the gears.

I know for a fact it's not from the big dowel area or any area between the case and cylinder. When I removed the head the sealant between the case and cylinder held up and the water jackets in the cylinder remained full. This may be why I thought the sealant worked the first time, I didn't fill it enough to fill the jackets.

 

[Terse]

Sounds like a cracked water jacket.

 

[Monster550]

Sounds like a cracked water jacket.

It almost does. I checked the head before and even specifically checked that area today since that's the only real area you can on the head and it's fine. I can see the water coming from the gap between the cylinder and head. I'm guessing the leak is worse without the sealant. I didn't wait but an hour or so before testing the sealant in place of the head gasket so I'm sure that's why it's just a constant spit. Almost like a syringe squeezing out water, probably just got through the sealant. Hopefully new gaskets and the Yamabond #4 will take care of it.
This week and next week are finals and I'll have a week and a half gap before Summer classes start so I'll work on it more then hopefully. Thanks for all the help to everyone who chimed in for me on this one, right or wrong everyone gave me tips and offered advice. I guess it's back to the 90 for awhile lol.

 

[Terse]

Why not just fix it by surfacing the head mating surface?

 

[Monster550]

Why not just fix it by surfacing the head mating surface?

I don't want to pull the valves and everything else right now.

 

[Monster550]

Wait Terse, I just thought about it and it still leaked with the old stock head so it must be the brand new Athena cylinder.

 

[Terse]

You don't have to pull the valves and stuff just to surface the head.

If it leaked with the other head, then it must be the cylinder. I've never seen a bad Athena though, but anything is possible.

 

[Monster550]

You don't have to pull the valves and stuff just to surface the head.

If it leaked with the other head, then it must be the cylinder. I've never seen a bad Athena though, but anything is possible.

I guess there's always the chance that the head gasket was defective to begin with and when I replaced it with sealant it didn't seal right. Either way I'll go an extra mile and use new gaskets and Yamabond #4. If it still leaks, then I'll toss in the towel and part it for a round nose Superjet for the summer.

 

[Terse]

Don't use the Athena head gasket. Use a Cometic

 

[Monster550]

Don't use the Athena head gasket. Use a Cometic

If I remember right, the kit came with Cometics. I was thinking Tusk base and head gaskets. Should I just stay with Cometic?

 

[climb-101]

The good news is I found the actual leak, the bad news is it's still not fixed. Either the new cylinder or the used head is warped around the timing chain slot. With the head cover off I can see water spitting out onto the chain. I'll go ahead and order new gaskets and get some Yamabond #4.

check your dowel pin length, i have seen some that are longer than others. You might have a long one in there and it could be causing the head to not sit all the way on the gasket. On the plus side you have found out the prob now its just a matter of fixing it.

you should be able to slid the dowel pin into the cylinder and mark the dowel then slide it into the head and see if it goes past your mark. If it dosnt you can sand down the dowel

 

[Terse]

Yes stay with Cometic.

 

[Monster550]

Thanks guys, I'll check the dowels and wait on Cometic gaskets.