i have read about every post on a arms and im still dont know if one brand is that much better than another. i think alot of people just praise what they happen to be running. i see alot people get the lsr arms, maybe because bob gives a good deal on them along with the tcs shocks. i also think some people just say one is better than the other cause that what the pros are using. i have just recently starting racing mx and have never had the oppurtunity to have aftermarket arms. i had a z400 last year and did pretty good at the local tracks with stock everything. i will also have to use my stock suspension this year since im pretty much broke due to buying the yfz and putting the basic parts on it. i plan on upgrading my suspension and stuff next year and wouldnt mind paying extra for the higher priced a arms and shocks if it is really that much of a difference. anyone with experience in this i would appreciate your input.
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I'm in your same boat, all the a-arms I've priced seem to be made of the same type of chromoly so the only benefit of one over another seems to be the amount of bracing in weak spots and the amount of adjustments (camber and caster). I'm not really sure why you would want caster adjustments on your a-arms since I'd think you control that with the tie rods but camber could be pretty important.
The best deal I have found on quality a-arms is on Herrmann a-arms.... they look strong and cool and are some of the least expensive. Doug Gust tested them out and raved about them... said they were as good as Roll Design for less than half the cost. ATV Sport is also doing an article on them in their upcoming magazine (according to Herrmann racing). Check out HerrmannRacing.com
I was quoted $535 for +1 (I race CC) std. travel (don't want to buy new longer shocks) red powdercoated a-arms with just the camber adjustment.
The best deal I have found on quality a-arms is on Herrmann a-arms.... they look strong and cool and are some of the least expensive. Doug Gust tested them out and raved about them... said they were as good as Roll Design for less than half the cost. ATV Sport is also doing an article on them in their upcoming magazine (according to Herrmann racing). Check out HerrmannRacing.com
I was quoted $535 for +1 (I race CC) std. travel (don't want to buy new longer shocks) red powdercoated a-arms with just the camber adjustment.
Tie rods control your toe-in. Caster is the angle of your upper and lower balljoints.
Heres a little explanation, hope its helpful:
An imaginary line runs through the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint. This is known as the pivot line. If this line is absolutely vertical, then the caster measurement is zero, or no caster. When the top of this line is leaned toward the rear of the car, we now have positive caster.
Try pushing around a chair with casters on it. You will find it has no directional stability. This is because the casters have negative caster and want to follow the slightest force in any direction.
here it is in a nut shell. 
got this off a website:
Camber
Camber is the amount of tilt measured between the top and bottom of a tire in reference to a vertical plane orientated in the same direction as the vehicles forward motion. The camber of the wheel is typically measured in degrees of tilt. A tire that is tilted in at the top and out at the bottom is said to have negative camber. The farther it angles out at the bottom the greater the amount of negative camber. To obtain positive camber, the top of the tire would be positioned farther out than the bottom.
The reason for having camber in your front end is as follows. As an ATV starts to initiate a turn at speed, the weight of the vehicle in motion (inertia) begins to compress the suspension and the quad starts to dive. The force generated at the contact area between the tire and the ground begins to flex the bottom of the tire under the machine. The flex of the tire as well as the change in attitude of the machine, tries to reduce the amount of negative camber.
A tires greatest traction is achieved when the maximum amount of tread is in contact with the ground. Maximum front tire traction is crucial when trying to turn the vehicle. Therefore, negative camber is added to the front tires to compensate for the cornering forces that act on the vehicle during a turn. The amount of compensation required depends on a number of factors such as the amount of suspension travel, the bike geometry and the type of terrain you plan to ride on. Below is a recommended starting point for your camber adjustment.
Motocross: 4.5 degrees
Cross Country: 4.5 degrees
Sand Dunning: 2 - 4 degrees
Desert Racing: 2 – 4 degrees
Recreational Riding: 1 - 3 degrees
Caster
If an imaginary line were to be drawn that passes thru the center of both the upper and lower heim joints, the angle that would be created between that imaginary line and a vertical plane constructed thru the spindle axle is referred to as Caster. If the upper heim joint is farther forward than the lower heim joint, it is said to have negative caster. If the upper heim joint is farther to the rear of the lower heim joint, it is said to have positive caster. The greater the amount of positive caster, the more stable the ATV will be at speed. The less positive caster the vehicle has, the easier it will steer and quicker it will turn. Below is the recommended starting point for your caster adjustment (not available on most Factory Pro arms excluding those manufactured for both Kawasaki and Suzuki)
Motocross: 4.5 degrees
Cross Country: 4.5 degrees
Sand Dunning: 3 – 4.5 degrees
Desert Racing: 6.5 degrees
Recreational: 3.5 – 4.5 degrees
Toe
The toe-in or toe-out of an ATV refers to a measurement taken between the front tires. The first measurement is taken between the leading edge of the two front tires. The second measurement is taken between the trailing edge of the two front tires. The difference between these two measurements is the ‘toe’ of the vehicle. If the measurement taken between the leading edges of the front tires is less than the measurement taken between the trailing edges, the vehicle is said to be toed in. If the measurements are reversed, the vehicle is said to be toed out. An ATV should never be toed out. If an ATV is toed out, it may dart unexpectedly from side to side. This darting effect is magnified in sandy or deep loamy conditions.
got this off a website:Camber
Camber is the amount of tilt measured between the top and bottom of a tire in reference to a vertical plane orientated in the same direction as the vehicles forward motion. The camber of the wheel is typically measured in degrees of tilt. A tire that is tilted in at the top and out at the bottom is said to have negative camber. The farther it angles out at the bottom the greater the amount of negative camber. To obtain positive camber, the top of the tire would be positioned farther out than the bottom.
The reason for having camber in your front end is as follows. As an ATV starts to initiate a turn at speed, the weight of the vehicle in motion (inertia) begins to compress the suspension and the quad starts to dive. The force generated at the contact area between the tire and the ground begins to flex the bottom of the tire under the machine. The flex of the tire as well as the change in attitude of the machine, tries to reduce the amount of negative camber.
A tires greatest traction is achieved when the maximum amount of tread is in contact with the ground. Maximum front tire traction is crucial when trying to turn the vehicle. Therefore, negative camber is added to the front tires to compensate for the cornering forces that act on the vehicle during a turn. The amount of compensation required depends on a number of factors such as the amount of suspension travel, the bike geometry and the type of terrain you plan to ride on. Below is a recommended starting point for your camber adjustment.
Motocross: 4.5 degrees
Cross Country: 4.5 degrees
Sand Dunning: 2 - 4 degrees
Desert Racing: 2 – 4 degrees
Recreational Riding: 1 - 3 degrees
Caster
If an imaginary line were to be drawn that passes thru the center of both the upper and lower heim joints, the angle that would be created between that imaginary line and a vertical plane constructed thru the spindle axle is referred to as Caster. If the upper heim joint is farther forward than the lower heim joint, it is said to have negative caster. If the upper heim joint is farther to the rear of the lower heim joint, it is said to have positive caster. The greater the amount of positive caster, the more stable the ATV will be at speed. The less positive caster the vehicle has, the easier it will steer and quicker it will turn. Below is the recommended starting point for your caster adjustment (not available on most Factory Pro arms excluding those manufactured for both Kawasaki and Suzuki)
Motocross: 4.5 degrees
Cross Country: 4.5 degrees
Sand Dunning: 3 – 4.5 degrees
Desert Racing: 6.5 degrees
Recreational: 3.5 – 4.5 degrees
Toe
The toe-in or toe-out of an ATV refers to a measurement taken between the front tires. The first measurement is taken between the leading edge of the two front tires. The second measurement is taken between the trailing edge of the two front tires. The difference between these two measurements is the ‘toe’ of the vehicle. If the measurement taken between the leading edges of the front tires is less than the measurement taken between the trailing edges, the vehicle is said to be toed in. If the measurements are reversed, the vehicle is said to be toed out. An ATV should never be toed out. If an ATV is toed out, it may dart unexpectedly from side to side. This darting effect is magnified in sandy or deep loamy conditions.
That was a great explanation except for one thing on the caster suggestions... it gave the degrees but didn't say if that was 4.5 degrees negative or positive... assuming you can go both ways. If thats not how the adjustment works and it only goes one way (and I don't know) then no problem. Makes me rather get a-arms with caster adjustment now... I believe Herrmann charged an additional 30 or 40 bucks for caster adjustments, I'm not sure.
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I dont really believe that many a-arms out there are that much differant then eachother. Some claim to use better materials, blah blah blah, but who knows if they really are. IN MY OPINION there are 2 sets of a-arms out there that are better then most others. The ArsFX a-arms, for the simple fact that ALOT of R&D went into those a-arms, and from what differant ppl tell me(all of which have had some experiance with the a-arms) said they seem to change the handling most out of all the other a-arms they had ever tested, or rode on. We all know that Axis makes an EXTREMELY high quality product in there shocks. And there a-arms def. are right up there in quality with their shocks
Walsh is the other set of a-arms, that i would say are CREAM OF THE CROP. Like its stated on there website(most advanced front end on the market) They r one of the few a-arms that i have seen that really caught my eye. Not because of the funky design, but when u actually hold a set in your hands, quality is TOP NOTCH! and when talking to differant shock builders, ide be willing to bet that over half will say that the Walsh a-arms seem to have the best range of motion, and they find it easier to dial in a set of shocks with those a-arms. How that is possible i dont know, but im sure it has alot to do with shock positioning, leverage ratio, that kinda stuff that i will leave up to the pros.
I do like the houser products, but i do have to say that ive had BAD experiances with there bal joints. And the fella that i sold my houser LTs to, also continued having problems with the ball joints. Now dont get me wrong, houser was very helpful by sending replacements everytime, but it just became a hassle. But even they are very good a-arms(if they got the ball joint problem straightned out)
Now im running LSRs and though i havent had as much time with them, like the housers or others ive had b4, they seem to be a very good set of a-arms also Im really impressed with the way Lone Star has stepped up with some really good products!
Like i said, these are MY OPINIONS
Walsh is the other set of a-arms, that i would say are CREAM OF THE CROP. Like its stated on there website(most advanced front end on the market) They r one of the few a-arms that i have seen that really caught my eye. Not because of the funky design, but when u actually hold a set in your hands, quality is TOP NOTCH! and when talking to differant shock builders, ide be willing to bet that over half will say that the Walsh a-arms seem to have the best range of motion, and they find it easier to dial in a set of shocks with those a-arms. How that is possible i dont know, but im sure it has alot to do with shock positioning, leverage ratio, that kinda stuff that i will leave up to the pros.
I do like the houser products, but i do have to say that ive had BAD experiances with there bal joints. And the fella that i sold my houser LTs to, also continued having problems with the ball joints. Now dont get me wrong, houser was very helpful by sending replacements everytime, but it just became a hassle. But even they are very good a-arms(if they got the ball joint problem straightned out)
Now im running LSRs and though i havent had as much time with them, like the housers or others ive had b4, they seem to be a very good set of a-arms also Im really impressed with the way Lone Star has stepped up with some really good products!
Like i said, these are MY OPINIONS
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102 Posts
IMHO, if you are not running A class or above at the nationals, you don't need shocks or A-arms on a YFZ.
Spend some time getting your shocks set up RIGHT!!!
These are the best shocks ever offered from the factory.
I think all the companies have good products, but Showa has made more shocks than all the aftermarket companies combined.
I have watched fast guys on properly set up stock components run away from $10,000 and $12,000 machines.
If you like to have fancy stuff, and just want to spend money, by all means go on and have fun.
BUt don't feel like you NEED these components to be competitive at the local level.
Set your stuff up and practice, then you can laugh at all the $10,000 dollar machines that finish after you.
Spend some time getting your shocks set up RIGHT!!!
These are the best shocks ever offered from the factory.
I think all the companies have good products, but Showa has made more shocks than all the aftermarket companies combined.
I have watched fast guys on properly set up stock components run away from $10,000 and $12,000 machines.
If you like to have fancy stuff, and just want to spend money, by all means go on and have fun.
BUt don't feel like you NEED these components to be competitive at the local level.
Set your stuff up and practice, then you can laugh at all the $10,000 dollar machines that finish after you.
I agree with BigAl. You can spend all the money you want and if your not a good rider you will get beat by a better rider with a stock machine. I am going to start racing this season and have done some upgrades but I don't expect that my upgrades are going to allow me to win until I become a better rider. Which I plan on doing by riding as much as possible.
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2,578 Posts
ANY high(er) end shock will make you faster and more comfortable, no matter the scenario. in racing, being 2-3 seconds faster is a godsend. you dont need to be an a class racer to get the full effect of an aftermarket shock. whether youre a beginner or a pro, you will simply be faster on aftermarket rather than stock. as for a arms, same applies. being wider, in most cases, improves speed ten fold. being 49" rather than 46" will allow you to brake later and take turns much faster than before. again, all bundling up into improving racing abilities. rider confidence is THE most important thing out on the track. aftermarket suspension maeks a rider more confident, which in turn, make he/she faster.
as for the difference in a arms: there is a huge difference. some companys use lower quality materials in the arms themselves, ball joints, etc. some arms are also much more durable than others. if i were to choose the top three PROVEN arms out now, it would be walsh, lonestar, and houser. metal craft is a company that has peaked my interest as of late. great quality stuff, but unknown imo.
as for the difference in a arms: there is a huge difference. some companys use lower quality materials in the arms themselves, ball joints, etc. some arms are also much more durable than others. if i were to choose the top three PROVEN arms out now, it would be walsh, lonestar, and houser. metal craft is a company that has peaked my interest as of late. great quality stuff, but unknown imo.
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304 Posts
it really wasn't a big decision when i bought my a arms. i knew right away i wanted lsr. they make some extremely high quality a arms and for a price thats hard to beat. didn't take much thinking to put my order in. go lsr :woo
Teixeria Tech new YFZ arms are done!
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Caster can be read in negative and positive degrees. You want positive caster.
The older cars, mostly early 70's and older, ran negative caster. They don't handle as well and take more effort when straightening the wheels coming out of a turn.
Positive caster helps return the steering wheel to center and creates and more stable ride at higher speeds. The more caster you run can also cause the tire to lean in or out more when turning, kinda like a road grader when it turns.
I hope this helps.
The older cars, mostly early 70's and older, ran negative caster. They don't handle as well and take more effort when straightening the wheels coming out of a turn.
Positive caster helps return the steering wheel to center and creates and more stable ride at higher speeds. The more caster you run can also cause the tire to lean in or out more when turning, kinda like a road grader when it turns.
I hope this helps.
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Hello, can somebody explain how to measure caster ? I've read the text, but how do I have to measure it on my YFZ ??? So practical hints please !
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I order these just this week, not very familiar with the name but I spoke with the owner for a while and according to him he spent many hours developing these and guarantees them for life. They accept the stock shocks which I plan to replace some day in the future. They’re made entirely of Chromoly and the upper arms are fully adjustable for camber and caster.
We’ll have to wait and see how it goes,
We’ll have to wait and see how it goes,
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