Raptor 660... I'm lost... - Yamaha YFZ450 Forum : YFZ450, YFZ450R, YFZ450X Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Raptor 660... I'm lost...

I full serviced my Raptor 660 last week including a carb clean. It ran fine before other than a few carb issues. Now it doesn't want to start. It turns over once, then stops and clicks the relay. Or if it's not close to TDCC, it'll turn over fine. Or if the spark plug is out, it turn over fine. It also has a loud tick to it, and when you give it throttle, after about 1/4 it just tries to die.

The jets in the carbs are all the same sizes as what they were before. I've checked the valve clearance three times now, every time they were in spec. 0.10mm intake, 0.15mm exhaust. The starter clutch is working correctly. The timing chain has more than half the distance on the tensioner to go, so the timing chain is plenty tight. The battery drops to 10.5 to 10.75VDC if it turns over, and if it doesn't it drops to 5-7VDC. The starter when it's unloaded completely only drops to 11.75VDC. The decompression pin seems to be working. Push the weights in, and the pin pulls into the camshaft like it should.

I don't get it. What else could it be? I'm a Certified Yamaha Technician, and I'm completely lost. What am I overlooking? I can't think of anything.

Btw... It's a completely stock motor. The only upgraded part is I just put a K&N air filter in it during this service.

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2002 Yamaha Raptor 660R SE
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:10 PM
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Were the rubber diaphragms in the carb ok? Bad gas? It really sounds like a carb issue...It ran fine before the cleaning? Where is the loud tick coming from? Head, lower cases?..Do you have a stethoscope which will help you find the tick...?


How did the oil look? Metal flakes...chunks...lol...?

Last edited by kilroy; 09-05-2016 at 12:13 PM.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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The diaphragms were fine. Drained the gas in the service and put new gas in. It was backfiring on deceleration a little bit, and it was a little raspy sounding like a dirty carb sounds like, you know. Raspy might not be the right word, but it was acting like a dirty carb normally would. The ticking sounds like it's from the head, but I can't think of why it would be ticking if the valve clearance is in spec. Oil looked normal. It hasn't been too long since it's last change. My father and I are going on a ride with the guys from work here in a few weeks and I was prepping for it.

2016 Yamaha YFZ450R SE, 2009 Yamaha YFZ450R SE (SOLD!), 2007 Yamaha YFZ450 SE (SOLD!)
2002 Yamaha Raptor 660R SE
2012 Yamaha YZ250F, 2003 Yamaha YZ250F
1993 Suzuki LT230E
2003 Polaris Trailblazer 250
2013 Harley Dyna Street Bob, 2003 Harley Dyna Wide Glide 100th Anniv. Edition
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 08:16 AM
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Well if you work at a dealer...
Regardless, you messed something up. You need to go back through your work.
Never messed with 660s, but its still all about the same.
Did you adjust the valves? Or just check them?


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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheerider11 View Post
Well if you work at a dealer...
Regardless, you messed something up. You need to go back through your work.
Never messed with 660s, but its still all about the same.
Did you adjust the valves? Or just check them?


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I don't work at a dealer anymore. I did when I lived in Phoenix, AZ, but now I'm just doing side work in Indiana. And even then, this is my own personal quad.

I've gone through everything I've touched three times, and went through the valves 5 times now. The first time, the valves were out of spec, so I put them in spec, the next couple adjustments were playing with it trying to get the tick to stop. .10IN/.15EX, .13IN/.18EX, .15IN/.20EX. All in spec, never helped. It seems like the decompression pin isn't working when it tries to start, but then once it's running, it struggles still. Idk what it's deal is.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobPeabody67 View Post
I don't work at a dealer anymore. I did when I lived in Phoenix, AZ, but now I'm just doing side work in Indiana. And even then, this is my own personal quad.

I've gone through everything I've touched three times, and went through the valves 5 times now. The first time, the valves were out of spec, so I put them in spec, the next couple adjustments were playing with it trying to get the tick to stop. .10IN/.15EX, .13IN/.18EX, .15IN/.20EX. All in spec, never helped. It seems like the decompression pin isn't working when it tries to start, but then once it's running, it struggles still. Idk what it's deal is.
Well now we are getting somewhere.
Ran, you did the valves, now it ticks and hard start.
You're still missing something.
Did you over torque something? Jump time? Did you get the lash right?

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Didn't over torque, got my in lb torque wrench out and torqued them by the book. I didn't take the cam out, and I didn't have the tensioner out when the cam cap was off, so it shouldn't of jumped a link. I haven't checked that yet, but that is a good place to look. And the clearance is right. Has been everytime except when I took the cap off the first time before the problems.

I get off work in two hours, I'll check the timing real quick then.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 11:21 AM
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Does it remain in time when you take it back apart to check? I had a Mojave that I would put in time, then after riding it would die and be out of time. What happened was the Camshaft gear wore loose from the actual camshaft and it would spin without the actual camshaft spinning at the same rate. So it would go out of time quickly and be impossible to start back up. Take the cam out and make sure the camshaft and gear all move in synchronicity.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 06:19 AM
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go backwards step by step...
so you serviced it.... done
than u tried to figure out what the tick was so you looked at valves... which means u started it after the service, ran ok but ticking.

so u looked a valves?
first time they where out off spec. so you adjusted them...put into spec, bike still ran cause u than "played" with valves to stop ticking? after adjustment than u started having trouble starting and when it does it does start it seems to struggle.

Break it down step by step backwards and figure out when it all went wrong, It has to be something with adjustment off valves, decomp pin? which is what im guessing from your explanation? but just guessing without actually knowing the whole steps u took before trouble happened.

Or u simply over tightened... Torque wrenches can read wrong, if dropped or knocked around.

It could be the showing wrong reading? especially on motorbike motors, cause they are so soft and doesnt take much to over tighten. Or using a 1/2inch torque wrench instead off a 3/8 torque makes a dif too when its soft material. I know most will say thats silly, a torque wrench is a torque wrench. but I have found this when working on yamaha outboards at work. Sometimes it just doesnt feel right, even though the 1/2inch torque wrench says torque more, so i change to a 3/8 and feels so much better. cause on the 1/2 its meant to read higher torque settings and ur trying to set them on their lower settings which is like at its minimum setting, where with the 3/8 its more mid-range of its dial, its all about the scale if you know what i mean.... so easy to get false readings. this is where feel comes into play and that comes with experience.

Just thinking out loud and trying to help you figure out, maybe u used a 3/8? Which would than mean it has to be valve adjustments are set wrong, timing or more than likely de comp pin. From your explanation it sounds like something is jamming up "sometimes" which is why im assuming de comp pin.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 06:30 AM
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also u mention it turns over fine without plugs.....

so its getting to much compression if thats the case, so ur valve setting must be wrong and or de comp pin is not working. or timing is way out... something along those lines
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Just as an update... I moved the cam 180į around, which shouldn't of done anything except move the strokes 2 strokes forward, in essence, nothing. I thought maybe just taking it out and moving everything around might of moved something and help it. Put it all back, readjusted the valves again. Torqued it down with my 1/4" inch pound torque wrench. Put the tank back on to try starting it, and it started right up. No starting/compression issues like before. It stopped the ticking and sounded good idling. I gave it a little gas to see if the bogging issue got solved and it didn't. So I tapped in the float bowls a little. Maybe a float was sticking and not filling the float bowl enough and it was just running lean because of no gas. Tried to rev it a little (1/4 throttle or so), and it started to bog, then there was a huge clunk and killed the motor. Sounded kinda like light a lightbulb shattered. I hit the starter again, and it turns over fine still, no grinding or anything. Just doesn't want to fire. Took the cam cap back off to see the valves, make sure I didn't bend one or anything. And they were good, cycles through the correct way. Valves were still in spec.

Later that night after not thinking of anything else, I put it in first gear, pulled the clutch in, and tried to start it. It then proceeded to jump forward like I didn't pull the clutch in. The clutch lever and cable has normal pressure on it. Goes down the the arm at the motor and is move right. But it acts like there's no clutch if you start it in gear.

I'm beyond lost unless 14 years and no issues other than dirty carbs has finally caught up to it. Havent had a chance to look at the clutch yet to get an idea of what's going on.
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