General Suspension Theory

[sanddragon2004]

QUOTE (c_olive18 @ Feb 1 2010, 11:43 AM)

100 races? I know several people that run Janssen Arms and they are lucky if they can get the heims to last the whole year. Which around here is 10-15 races total. Also if the heims are so good, why does Janssen try sell a rebuildable ball joint?[/b]

I will post pics of said heims.

the bike in question is a local rider, he cleans tears down his bike after every race and is meticulous about his bike.
he is a mechanic and takes extremely good care of them.

that said, please please please send us some pics or better yet post them here.

[sanddragon2004]

Yes, ITP quad cross for 3 seasons,

at least 3 seasons of quad wars,

and every local race in nor cal bay area. (jim dutcher) number 613 you can look it up or call him.

[yaidunno]

I've had 4 different quads come through my shop all running sticker-slapped fireball arms, and every single machine had a minimum of 2 joints that were loose. One was bad enough that it was unsafe to ride.

There really isnt much to debate on the arms or heim joints. The exposed joints are just waitng to wear out, and the arm is a cheap design. By cheap, im talking manufacturing costs. Putting a bend in a tube is much cheaper to do compared to a below-the-arm style mount. I see they have a new joint out that is sealed and greasable. This seems like an acceptable solution.

If fireball wants to compete in the upper levels of MX racing, they need to take design cues from companies such as Walsh, Laeger, and Roll Design. Yes, it will cost more to manufacture, and yes it will be more expensive to purchase. But there is a reason that companies like the above mentioned are considered top of the line equipment.

[sanddragon2004]

you mean like this?

hardened steel body rebuildable ball joint?

[sanddragon2004]

QUOTE (yaidunno @ Feb 3 2010, 02:58 PM)

I've had 4 different quads come through my shop all running sticker-slapped fireball arms, and every single machine had a minimum of 2 joints that were loose. One was bad enough that it was unsafe to ride.

There really isnt much to debate on the arms or heim joints. The exposed joints are just waitng to wear out, and the arm is a cheap design. By cheap, im talking manufacturing costs. Putting a bend in a tube is much cheaper to do compared to a below-the-arm style mount. I see they have a new joint out that is sealed and greasable. This seems like an acceptable solution.

If fireball wants to compete in the upper levels of MX racing, they need to take design cues from companies such as Walsh, Laeger, and Roll Design. Yes, it will cost more to manufacture, and yes it will be more expensive to purchase. But there is a reason that companies like the above mentioned are considered top of the line equipment.[/b]

I wouldnt call them cheap. there are plenty of cheap knock offs out there. Fireball uses hardened steel heims on their joints. not the cheap frap brand most garage shops use. (food for thought)

Roll design still uses a heim joint in there arms.
(imaged pulled from there website today.

[foxyone1277]

hey i just bought a 2008 yfz 450 and took it to a track nearby. Couple people were telling me i need to adjust the setup of my shocks. Can anyone please help. this is my first quad so i know absolutely nothing about it. Yet!!! Thank you for any help.

[-justin-]

I've got Roll-Design Arms on my YFZ. Those are NOT YFZ arms.

The Roll-Design arms for the YFZ use eclosed balljoints, and are actually from a 1987 Yamaha Warrior. Here you can see the actual design of the arms:

ROLL DESIGN - THE SCIENCE OF ATV PERFORMANCE

Originally Posted by sanddragon2004

QUOTE (yaidunno @ Feb 3 2010, 02:58 PM)


I wouldnt call them cheap. there are plenty of cheap knock offs out there. Fireball uses hardened steel heims on their joints. not the cheap frap brand most garage shops use. (food for thought)

Roll design still uses a heim joint in there arms.
(imaged pulled from there website today.

[sam68]

Originally Posted by foxyone1277

hey i just bought a 2008 yfz 450 and took it to a track nearby. Couple people were telling me i need to adjust the setup of my shocks. Can anyone please help. this is my first quad so i know absolutely nothing about it. Yet!!! Thank you for any help.

Have you read the first post? It will explain a lot. Once you know what each setting does (rebound, preload, compression) it makes it a lot easier to understand what you are doing. First off adjust your preload, this is what adjusts your ride height you want the back from the ground to the bottom of the frame at the pegs at about 7" for MX, and then the front, at the motor mounts about a 1/4 to 1/2 " higher. Once that is done find some good whoops and keep taking your bike over them adjusting your compression and rebound until you get it where it feels good. If the rebound is to slow your suspension is going to "pack up" or not recover in time for the next bump in that case you would want to speed up or make your rebound faster. Set your rebound all the way slow and you will see what I am talking about, push down on the front or rear and see how slow the bike comes back up if it is really slow you want to speed it up, you can get this pretty close just by pushing up and down on a flat surface. What I like to do is set the preload first then set the rebound & compression clicks half way in the adjustment range. Once this is done you can take it out like I said and take it through the whoops and I suggest making changes in 4 to 5 click increments so that you can feel a change if you only go 1 or 2 clicks you wont feel much, you can always back them off if you went to far. Hope this helps each bike/rider is going to want something different from their suspension. Also not sure how your 08 manual is but I got my 09 shocks pretty close just by reading the instructions in the manual, if your 08 has high speed low speed adjustments like my 09 then it will help you.

[sam68]

Originally Posted by -justin-

I've got Roll-Design Arms on my YFZ. Those are NOT YFZ arms.

The Roll-Design arms for the YFZ use eclosed balljoints, and are actually from a 1987 Yamaha Warrior. Here you can see the actual design of the arms:

ROLL DESIGN - THE SCIENCE OF ATV PERFORMANCE

Yeah you are right your picture is the right ones for a YFZ I have them on my 05.

[foxyone1277]

i appreciate your help all help is a good start

[wangyin]

i can proceed best near to concerning the computer, but i didnt have skool nowadays now i just gotta get my choice of a-arms and do some "reviews" on thoes.



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[speeddemon1187]

Can someone help me figure this out? I have an 08 yfz450... this is my rear shock and I see 3 adjustment points... the big silver hex, the middle gold hex, and the small gold flatblade in the middle... which one does what??

[speeddemon1187]

still need help on ^that^ post... anyone?